Jamie Thurlow

Member

Enterprise Business Development Leader @ PGM 🏡 | Strategic Prospecting Coach | 2023 PGM Rookie of the Year 🏆 | Mindfulness Advocate 🧘‍♀️

Hey, I'm Jamie! 👋🏼

I'm passionate about creative + strategic, research-driven outbound.

Resonating with prospects is hard - but not if you're consultative + authentic.

If this is your jam too, we should connect 🤝🏼!

A few of my recent milestones 🏆:

⭐ 2023 Porch Group Media Rookie of the Year
⭐ Top Sales Prospecting Voice
⭐ Featured presenter @ 2024 Sales Summit: Building your Brand for Sales Enablement on LinkedIn
↳ Workshop generated several qualified sales opportunities | $20k+ in pipeline revenue

🌟 BDR ➝ BDR Team Lead ➝ BDR Manager within 1 year
↳ Team generated ~$2.5MM+ in NB pipeline revenue: Year 1 @ PGM 🚀
🌟 Built BDR program from scratch, developing the process from interest ➝ discovery ➝ opportunity
🌟 Prospecting tech stack champion - vetted, implemented & trained team on PGM's new tools + platforms

Skill set:

✨ Team leader: Always UTD on BDR trends, strategizes with SLT weekly on new business initiatives
✨ ICP outreach approach: Quality > Quantity | Omnichannel
✨ ABM prospecting framework: Research-driven + trigger-led + value-prop by use case
✨ Skilled copy + ghost writer: Creates relevant messaging for BDR + sales teams to stand out in prospect inboxes/DMs
✨ LinkedIn advocate: Promotes + coaches team on personal branding, social selling, DM + voice note strategy
✨ Results-focused: Develops, drives and achieves individual and team-based goals | Corporate KPIs + OKRs
✨ Autonomous by nature: Independent self-starter
↳ Remote since 2020

Quote: "I love when prospects reply to my personalized & relevant emails with 'unsubscribe'" - said no one ever

Chief Floral Officer 🌸 | Mindfulness advocate 🧘🏼‍♀️ | Pet parent 🐾

Business Development Team Lead

CEO @ Alpha Presales | Teaching smart people to talk less and sell more. The smarter your sales engineers are, the more they need this.

I run Alpha GTM – our mission is to help you sell more without being "salesy." 

Prior to this, I did: Engineering -> Consulting -> Presales -> Sales. 

I've trained thousands of sales leaders, reps, and SEs from 23 different countries. Through my training, I've learned that the best sales professionals are not successful because they "sell" – they're successful because they lead. 

That's why we teach Leadership. 

If you follow my content, you'll get playbooks to help you and your team master Leadership, Discovery, and Storytelling so you can sell more effectively. Be a Leader. Own the sale.

Rew Dickinson

CEO | Professional selling without being “salesy”

Every Sales Engineer who joins a company should hear these words from their manager on Day 1: 

1. I don't expect you to have all the answers
2. I don't expect you to be right all the time
3. I don't expect you to be perfect

I DO expect you to: 

1. Do your best.
2. Get better every day.
3. Listen more than you talk.
4. Ask questions even if you feel nervous.
5. If you don’t know the answers, get them. 

We set this unrealistic expectation that SEs are supposed to know all the answers, and when they don't they feel awkward. 

That's why most of them try to control the meeting by talking the entire time. 

What'd I miss?

My average sales cycle was 4.5 months. My company's average was 9. I always used 2 documents to help me do this: 1 you've probably heard of, and 1 you probably haven't. I teach both in my sales workshops. Here's why they matter and how to do them: 

The Problem: 

Most clients think the best way to evaluate software is to: 
1. Look at the generic stuff that Gartner publishes -> 
2. Line up 5 potential vendors -> 
3. Get demos from all of them-> 
4. Realize they all look the same -> 
5. Downselect to 2 vendors -> 
6. Do a bakeoff -> 
7. Realize that they forgot to include their actual workflows in the bakeoff ->
8. Do a follow-up POC to close the loop on their remaining questions -> 
9. Get ready to make a decision -> 
10. Realize that some person from Enterprise Architecture, Security or IT has to do something ->
11. Start engaging legal at the very end of the evaluation -> 
12. Get delayed 4 weeks...because...lawyers -> 
13. Finally, sign a contract. 

It's like thinking that the best way to drive from Seattle to LA is through New York. 

It's absurd, but most clients don't know that because most clients have never bought your product before and don't know how to do it. 

That's why in all my sales workshops, I teach the team how to create a Visual Evaluation Plan (VEP).

NOTE: This is not a Mutual Action Plan. Mutual Action Plans are amazing when the client already likes you, but they're far too detailed for early-stage prospects where you're not the vendor of choice (yet). 

To create your VEP, do this:
1. Map out the slowest sales cycles you've been through
2. Map out the fastest sales cycles you've been through
3. Visually draw what the fastest sales cycles looked like in a way workflow that you could present to a customer. 

Then show the VEP to the client and say, "We've worked with [numberOfCustomers] customers and found that the fastest and most efficient way to get through an evaluation is to follow this process. How does this compare to what you had planned?"

Nearly every time I do this, the client thanks me. 

It gives them a plan. 

Be a Leader.

Just wrapped up Sales Kickoff with Planful in Palm Springs, CA. This was my 8th SKO of the year, and Planful did the opposite of what most companies do at SKO...

They spent almost all their time focused on their customer – not their product, not their positioning, not their competitors. 

In fact, we did two sessions focused on the most important thing (OUR CUSTOMER): 

1. Customer Value Discovery
We did a 2-hour, deep, hands-on session on how to discover what customers actually need, not just what we want to sell.

2. Knowing our Customer and Owning the Sale
We did a 2-hour interactive workshop where we broke down each industry and the buyers Planful serves, to help guide them through the sales process more efficiently. 

I love working with sales leaders like Steve who are more focused on their customers than anything else, because that mindset shows up in everything they do.

Thank you, Steve, Mel, John, Emily, Ben, Andrew, and Ameesh, for finally getting to meet this team in person!

P.S. Not a bad place for SKO, huh?

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Founder

Sales + Sales Engineering

Consulting + Software Engineering

Financial Analyst

Helping CROs and CSOs run a predictable GTM

Planful

SVP Sales

If you're in Sales or Sales Engineering, your job is not to convince. Early in my career, I thought it was. Here's what I learned (plus, why the best AEs and SEs are rarely the most convincing)...

---

I was the SE on one of the biggest accounts in my company's history ($48 million). We needed the Retail Group, the Financial Advisory Group, and three other groups to all agree that our solution was the right one.

Earlier in my career, I would have focused on giving the most compelling demos and POCs to all these groups. That works, to a degree. But once I got more mature in sales, I realized that the most powerful thing you can do in a sales cycle isn't to convince or persuade the person in front of you – it's to coach them. 

For example, I found out that one of the Solutions Architects that we were selling to had worked for 3 out of the 5 groups that we needed to get onboard. 

So rather than try to convince him, I decided to coach him. The client had asked us to do a POC, but I set up a workshop with the Solutions Architect where I taught him how to build out a workflow completely on his own. 

I would do this often because I've found that when people build something, it's way easier for them to present it to their peers. 

For example, have you ever tried to give a presentation that someone else built? It's miserable. You're nervous the whole time because you didn't build it yourself. 

Once this Solutions Architect built the solution, he owned it. Then he went around to the four other business groups and showed them what he built.

He became my internal seller. I didn't try to convince him, I coached him instead.

When you convince people, you're not equipping them to convince anyone else. But when you give them what they need to sell internally, they can sell when you're not in the room.

Every time I'm working a deal now, I'm asking myself: "How do I turn the people I'm selling to into my internal sellers?"

Stop convincing. Start coaching.

In my SE training, I always ask how many SEs have heard of the 3 Whys. Less than 50% of SEs raise their hand. Here’s why that matters for SE teams and how to apply the 3 Whys in Sales Engineering. 

---

The 3 Whys are the 3 questions that a prospect needs to answer if you’re going to sell anything to them: 

- Why do anything? 
- Why do it now? 
- Why do something with this vendor? 

Until the prospect has mentally answered these 3 questions, they’ll never buy. 

The problem is that most SEs give demos that only answer one question for the prospect: 

- Why do something with this vendor? 

They leave out the 2 more important questions: 
- Why do anything? 
- Why do it now? 

This is why SC discovery is so critical. 

We can’t just give demos and talk. We have to ask questions and tell stories, because those things help customers answer: 
- Why do anything? 
- Why do it now? 

For example, if you sell an expense management solution and a client tells you that they have a manual process for doing expenses, you don’t jump right into the demo. 

Instead, you say, “How long have you been dealing with this?”

They’ll probably say, “It has been like this forever.” 

That’s when you say, “Is it getting better or worse?”

They’ll probably say, “It’s getting worse because we’re trying to do more face-to-face meetings.”

Now that you asked them, it helps them realize that not only are you the right vendor, but that if they don’t do something, and do it now, their problem is going to get worse. 

---

Lesson? 

If you can move from just showing solutions to asking questions, you can help prospects go from answering just one question: 
- Why do something with this vendor? 

To answering all 3 Whys: 
- Why do anything?
- Why do it now?
- Why do something with this vendor? 

P.S. SE Leaders: For monthly tips on how to improve presales, join 200+ presales leaders who get our newsletter: https://lnkd.in/eKaaGeZr

I watch 100 sales presentations a year. And almost everyone gets this wrong. They try to "sell value" by talking about the product. But the value isn't in the product. It's in the prospect. Watch this to see where "value" actually comes from and how to sell a lot more of it.

Last month, I did an SKO where several sales reps in the crowd would chime in and add their 2 cents to the discussion. 

Afterwards, one of the Solutions Consultants (SCs) pulled me aside and asked me, "How do you speak up in a big group like that?" 

I asked him, "What makes you think that you can't?" 

We chatted for a bit, and I ultimately told him this: 

Many SCs are afraid to speak up at SKOs or in big groups. Sometimes it's because they feel like the event is for the sales reps, and sometimes it's just because they're nervous speaking in a large group. 

Either way, remember this: 

1. It is quite often that SCs have MORE experience than sales reps at the company. For example, the average SC tenure tends to be 3-7 years at a company, whereas the average AE tenure is only about 18 months. 

2. If you have something valuable to share with the team, you don't have to wait for your turn to share it. You're on the sales team, too. You can contribute whenever you want. 

SCs have a voice. Don't be afraid to use it.

This sales meeting started horribly. The sales rep briefed the SC on the opportunity 2 minutes before the prospect joined the call. Somehow, they pulled off a miracle together, largely because the SC was an absolute beast with 10 years of experience and knew how to lead. 

Here are 3 things that the SC did that show just how valuable SCs can be in sales: 

1- The SC got the prospect talking early. Notice how he peppered in questions early on. This got the prospect talking and sharing problems, so that when he demoed, he was aligning to those problems, not talking about features. 

2- About halfway through the demo, the prospect started to "sell herself." The SC recognized this, stopped demoing, and immediately pivoted to a businses conversation to help her build her business case. He "sold" less and started asking questions again. 

3- Toward the end of the meeting, the SC went from "selling" to "leading." He talked about how expensive it is for people in her role to engage outside consultants for help with things they could figure out themselves with the right software. Then he asked her how often she has to go to consultants for answers and she revealed how often and how much it costs. It immediately justified the investment.

This is an incredible example of SC leadership in a deal. 

Sales Reps: prep your SCs before the call. 
SCs: don't just demo, be a leader.

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I always hated the saying, "Time kills all deals." It's true. But it's selfish. Let's look at why, and what we should do about it.

In my consultative sales workshops, I always ask the team 3 questions: 
1- How long is your sales cycle?
2- How long is your implementation? 
3- How long before adoption/proficiency? 

Since most of my customers are selling big platforms, the answers are often: 
• 9+ months for the sale
• 3+ months for the implementation
• 6+ months for adoption

That's 18+ months before they get "value." 

Think about that for a second...

That means our customers are sitting in pain for 18+ months. 

So yes, "time kills all deals," but if we think about it from our customer's perspective, it's even worse! 

The longer we take to sell, the longer our customers are in pain!

This is why the absolute worst thing you can do as a consultative seller is react to your customer. Yet I see sales teams do it all the time: 
- Customer wants a POC, they get it
- Customer wants a demo, they get it

The real problem is that customers often don't know what they want, much less what they need. 

As a sales professional, you have to be able to constructively push back and lead your customer. 

They need your guidance and expertise. 

If you can't push back and lead them, you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting them. 

You're the doctor. They're the patient. Never forget that.

If your sales reps are giving demos, you have a MASSIVE problem. Your sales reps should be building pipeline. Your sales engineers (SEs) should be progressing pipeline. If that's not happening, these are 5 of the most common reasons why (and 5 solutions).


NOTE: For deals under $10K and demos under 10 minutes, it's fine for sales reps to do demos. This post is about enterprise sales, not transactional sales.

---

PROBLEM 1: It takes too long for a sales rep to get an SE assigned to them.

SOLUTION: There's no reason it should take two weeks for an SE to be assigned to a deal. Could you imagine walking into a car dealership and them telling you that you can test-drive a car in two weeks? That's absurd, and you'll lose before you even get a chance to demo. Fix your assignment process or hire more SEs.


PROBLEM 2: Your sales reps think they can give better demos than their SEs. 

SOLUTION: Sometimes sales reps are better at demos than SEs. In fact, I was an example of that because I used to be an SE and could give great demos. But if you're selling mid-market or enterprise software, and you're giving demos yourself, you look bush league. What message do you think you're sending to a prospect that you're the only showing up to a meeting with them? Don't do it. A lawyer can represent themselves in court. That doesn't mean they should.


PROBLEM 3: Your sales reps want to control the narrative and are afraid of what the SE might say.

SOLUTION: I see this a lot. SEs are super smart and super detail-oriented but they haven't mastered SALES skills. Nothing drives a sales rep crazier than an SE who knows 17 ways to do something and gives the customer 17 options. All that does is create indecision. SEs: Your job isn't to give the customer options. Your job is to help the customer make a decision.


PROBLEM 4: Your SEs aren't that good at sales, so sales reps don't want to bring them into the deal.

SOLUTION: Just because you hire sales engineers with social skills doesn't mean they're good at SALES. You need to TEACH them SALES skills. In this order: Leadership - > Discovery - > Storytelling. That's how they "sell" without being "salesy." If you don't teach them these skills, they will forever be seen as "technical resources." Either develop your own SE training curriculum or get an SE-specific training curriculum like Alpha Presales.


PROBLEM 5: Your Sales reps don't actually know how to use SEs.

SOLUTION: I also see this a lot. Sales reps think that SEs are there to give demos. They don't realize that your SE (not your product) IS your differentiator. When I was a sales rep, I would bring my SE into the deal early because I learned that clients would tell them way more than they would ever tell me. That helped me uncover more pain and sell more value. Your SEs are your secret weapon.


Bottom Line:
If your sales reps are giving demos, it means they aren't building pipeline, which is the most important thing they can be doing.

What would you add?

This was a really bad demo. I watch hundreds of them a year, and these 3 problems come up again and again. Here's how to fix them. 

---

PROBLEM 1: "Teaching," and not talking about VALUE.

In my training, I teach the Alpha AAA Framework (Audience, Annoyance, Afterward). Before you jump into a feature/solution, always know the Audience, their Annoyance, and what their life would look like After your solution is in place. If you do this, you have the basics of a story. If you don't do that, you're just selling features, not value. 

PROBLEM 2: Talking too much.

Breathe. 11 minutes and 19 seconds is way too long for anyone to listen to a demo. Simple tip: plan out your questions before you demo. For every solution you plan to show, write at least 1 question to ask before or after you show it. 

PROBLEM 3: Reacting, not leading.

Both sales reps and SCs mess this up. They're trying to be nice, so they offer more information. I can't tell you how many times I hear meetings end with..."We're happy to dive deeper into any of these things." Rarely do prospects need more information, they usually just need to build a business case. Help them with that. 

What other problems do you see?

This was one of the best things I've ever heard a Sales Leader say...

I was in Dallas, TX, with Motorola, and we were teaching storytelling to the Solutions Consulting team. 

That's when the SVP of Sales, Jeremy Smith chimed in and asked the SCs...

“Do you know where we can get these customer stories from?“

The team responded:
- "Marketing!"
- "Our website!"
- "The CS team!"

Jeremy said, "yes, yes, and yes."

But then he said the best answer of all...

“Go meet with the customer directly. You can go on-site. You don't have to ask your sales rep for permission."

I loved this because there are so many SC teams that I talk to who feel like they work FOR their sales reps – You don't. 

You have every right to do what's right for your customer.

Be you.

Sr VP Resilience & Security Sales | Business Continuity, Security Ops & Emergency Management

Salespeople: Your tone says everything. So if you're, 
- Starting the meeting by apologizing for giving the corporate deck, or
- Racing to get through the corporate deck, or
- Telling people "I only a few slides..."

Stop. 

If giving the corporate deck is valuable for the customer, then don't apologize for doing it. 

If it's not, then skip it.

2 years ago, Todd Janzen and I sat down and talked about 2 massive problems in B2B sales: 
1) Sales Reps take too long to be productive (because B2B sales are super complex)
2) Sales Engineers don't have the capacity to be on every demo

These are still massive problems. 

Demo automation helps with both of them because: 

1) It gives your sales reps the content they need to be productive on Day 1
2) It increases the capacity of the SE team, while also putting SEs into the pipeline conversation as revenue drivers

If you're not following Todd and Consensus, you ought to be.

This is a behind-the-scenes look at what I do when a company asks me to run their sales kickoff (SKO). 

Lesson for all sales enablement professionals -> if you want people to remember what you teach them at SKO: 

1- Make people compete as a team (not just listen to a lecture)
2- Reinforce the training after SKO

P.S. What has been your most memorable SKO ever?

I get this question all the time in my sales training: “What do you do when people are quiet and you’re not getting much engagement in your demo?” 

When I hear this, I often ask the person, “what makes you think the quiet people aren’t engaged?”

That usually gets people thinking...

As sellers, we can’t assume that being quiet means people aren’t engaged. 

I’ve sold software and trained salespeople all over the world and there are largely two dynamics at play: 
1. Culture
2. Behavior

For example, Nordic countries are quieter than Southern European countries. New York is very different from Iowa. And Australia is different from Japan. 

On top of that, you have behavior. For example, I’m a verbal processor and I tend to get clarity through speaking. So you will hear me speak during meetings. That has nothing to do with being an American. 

On the other hand, my training director, who is also American is an internal processor and she prefers to think privately first before verbalizing her thoughts. 

So if you can’t assume quiet means disengaged, what do you actually do about it?

1. Set expectations in the beginning: tell the audience upfront that you've built in time for questions throughout, and that you'll be asking them things along the way.

2. Plan your questions in advance: for example, after showing a new solution, ask an open-ended question like, “How does this compare to how you’re currently doing things?” The key is asking HOW, not closed-ended questions like “would this be helpful for your team?” (Yes/No). 

3. Give people something to confirm or correct, for example, you can say something like, “most customers are either looking to increase conversion rate, or they’re trying to get better control over their forecast, which is it for you?” They’ll either confirm one or the other, or correct you and tell you something completely different. 

Don’t assume that quiet means disengaged. But don’t get lazy and just talk the whole time.

What's worse: 
1. "Umm"
2. "Uhh"
3. "Right?"
4. "Ya know."

Fire away!

I wish I had known this earlier in my sales career. #sales #salesengineering #relationships

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Jamie Thurlow

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