Mark Kosoglow

Chief Revenue Officer (CRO)

Kosoglow Family

Doing dad stuff, exploring interesting and fun opportunities...cookin' up something SPICY!

CFO - Chief Fun Officer

HockeyStack

I provide GTM guidance to Hockeystack's executive team.

Advisor

Catalyst Software

The traditional way of generating revenue from the universe of prospects that *might* be able to buy your product is hard, risky, and expensive. Revenue generated from customers is easier, more certain, and less expensive. The more you dedicate yourselves to deliver impact for your customers, the more they became the true engine of growth. 

Catalyst is positioned to become the dominant leader in helping companies grow their revenue with customers. I'm traveling the same revenue journey I have for the last 8+ years but from the opposite end of the funnel...starting with the customer!

I’m excited to be the CRO at Catalyst and help the team accelerate the amazing success we’ve already had at leading companies to lean into a world where customer’s success is at the center of every decision.

Outreach

Senior Vice President Of Global Sales

It's cheating...I am building the most powerful sales team in the world selling (and using) the most powerful sales tool known to humankind. 

Industries all over the world have benefitted from automation specific to their use case for decades. Finally, it's sales' turn. It's time for sales to 10x productivity and results with a tool meant to accomplish what we work hard to do every day:  turn leads into meetings, meetings into pipeline, and pipeline into customers.

VP of Sales

School Specialty Planning & Student Development

Working with 14 person team consisting of inside and outside sales reps that covers 12 states. Responsible for $14mm in annual revenue. Involved in hiring, onboarding, developing, training, and providing ongoing coaching for each person on the team. Helping to set quotas and activity standards, developing tools to track those metrics, and holding team members accountable to them. Managing sales training / education, market / business development, sales process creation, marketing materials, and various expense budgets.

-Became the #1 overall region for entire SY13-14; #1 in 3 of 4 revenue areas of focus; #2 in fourth
-Led all sales reps in newly created sales roles servicing brand new markets to hit quota first 10 months of sales year
-Successfully led to 71% more sales in corporate-dictated focus products than the 2nd leading region, 45% more in total ISC sales (new sales function in organization to drive growth) than 2nd leading region
-Owned 60% of all growth territories nationwide in current sales region (1 of 6 regions)
-Recruited, hired and trained 3 of the top 4 outside representatives & a top 10 inside representative
-35% of company’s top 50 sales occurred in this region in SY13-14
-103% of nat’l avg SY12-13 despite missing 20%+ of man-hours due to downsizing, bankruptcy, & open territories
-5 of the top 8 ISC sales territories are currently located in the region (3 of top 4) 
-Developed and led a culture of results, family / collaboration & accountability
-Researched, developed, instituted, and continued to maintain most comprehensive metrics dashboard in company
-Honed in on the management philosophy and style to provide a consistent, open / transparent, motivating environment built on performance, activity, self-evaluation and collaborative professional development
-Effectively closed the 3 largest deals in the last 5 years of the company

Regional Sales Director

Great American Opportunities

Established and grew a successful sales territory in rural Pennsylvania in the K12 school fundraising market.

-Developed the territory/market, created marketing materials, booked appointments, did sales calls/presentations, and then organized and maximized production of deals closed
-Took a territory that, in 10 years, had not been able to sustain a rep for more than 6 months to being a top 10% territory (of 250) 
-Effectively inventoried and developed incentive items to drive results
-Grew the territory every year except one; the territory had $1000 in annual repeatable sales in the beginning and grew that to $500,000
-Worked hard, created automated systems and processes, and developed relationships that led to success
-Received 4 growth awards including the Ralph Mosely Award for growth of more than $150,000; published in the PTO Today publication distributed in over 50,000 schools nationwide

Senior Account Manager

Nittany Notes

Responsible for general running of the office, hiring, training, staff development, sales, and inventory for a local business of 100+ employees.

-Efficiently franchised the business concept and expanded to 2 more campuses
-Involved in managing 300+ individual business units and 100+ employees; developed systems and processes
-Effectively took the company from the analog age to the digital age
-Productively created a new revenue stream through advertising and sold out the space
-Skillfully worked on a startup and IPO that we eventually decided against
-Successfully became the highest paid manager in history of company

General Manager

Are your customers your growth engine? They should be.

As a teenager, watching 14 videos in the back storeroom on a 7" black and white TV to learn how to sell shoes at the mall was a great foundation. Running a small business with 200+ employees showed me how to be organized. Creating a highly profitable sales territory from one dead for a decade was hard work. Managing 12 salespeople across 9 states cemented my sales philosophy. Getting one of the fastest growing SaaS companies in history to $250M+ in revenue taught me how to balance scaling and delivering a world class customer experience.

Working with a customer-centric team with, by far, the best, smartest, hardest working people I've ever worked with....well, that's an honor and privilege I get to enjoy everyday.

I tried to buy software on Monday. The AE wouldn't let me. Here's how the convo went (mind-blowing how hard we make it to buy).


Me: I am an easy sell. I know my problem deeply. I understand the vendors. I have money. I can make the decision. This is an easy sale if you can help me understand a couple things I couldn't figure out on my own. 
→ Yes. I actually said that. I wanted him to know I was ready to buy.

AE: Great. We'll see how it does once I put paper in front of you. But I do need to ask some questions to make sure it's a good fit.
→ A little aggressive, but OK...maybe being funny. Cool. But we are about to go from me asking buying questions to you asking disco questions?! Sounds like a step back.


Me: Not being rude, but I don't need discovery done on me. I understand my problem. I have a couple questions to ask.
→ Maybe that was a little rude, but I only had 30 mins and needed info.

AE: No worries. What are you going to use our product for?
→ I'm getting annoyed. He ignored my request and is now asking me questions I know the answer to and he should know the answer to otherwise I wouldn't be talking to him. If this hadn't been so lazy a question, maybe I'd have been OK. Better question - You seem like you know what you want. Can you bring me up to speed so I'm in your headspace?


Me: We are going to XYZ. Do y'all do ABC?
→ I gave a 10 sec explanation bc I was forced to. It was lazy and generic. No info. 

AE: Before I answer that, why are you looking at us?
→ Annoyed going to upset. Could you answer my question? Does it matter why I'm looking at you? Not really. We could have closed by now.


Me: You are one of the solutions that had enough requirements for me to contact. I really need to understand if you do ABC. Do you?
→ Useless info to help close me. Question repeated.

AE: Depends. Who else needs to be in this decision?
→ 3 strikes and you're out. Asked 3 times. I need to consider this vendor so I can't just not talk to them. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Me: Question - are these questions in your CRM and you have to fill them out?
→ I'm sniffing a micromanaging sales leader who won't let reps sell.

AE: Uh. Ya, but these are things we need to know for our process.
→ Not true.


So what happened?

I gave in. I gave him a bunch of short, useless answers for his CRM and manager. He could have SOLD me if he'd let me ask questions for 5 mins. 

In the end, I was told I needed to go through a technical round to speak to people about how I would use their product.

Note: The solution I'm after is obvious, not complicated, and commoditized.

I may be a unique buyer, but when I'm waving money in front of you, please grab it and ask questions later.

We've made it so hard, put up so many barriers, and have made sales cycles so much about "us" that I wonder how many deals we are losing running the process that's supposed to help us win.


Last week, I meet with 20 of the greatest GTM minds on the planet.
CROs, VPs of Sales, CMOs, CCOs, trainers, talking heads. 
90% agreed that the SDR role is basically dead. Why?

1. It's been used incorrectly.

It's pretty much been proven that an AE without and SDR is just as productive as one with an SDR. Funny. AEs will find their way to their quota given limited resources. The constraint was thought to be time, but many AEs did not invest more in their deals bc they were spending less time prospecting. They ended up doing side hustles, making courses, working out, etc. Works for the person, not for the company paying them (and the SDR).


2. The economics are off in most cases.

Having a $100k SDR, $200k AE, $125k SE, $130k CSM, and a $110k Onboarder  team up on sub-$10k ACV deals is comical. The CAC payback period is too long for the current churn and contraction rates. In general, it's a bloated structure that caters to AEs who don't want to prospect or move with their customers into post-sales. My first sales job I was a one-man wrecking crew. I prospected, closed, onboarded, success-ed, renewed, and supported every account I signed. It was hard work, but I did it.

3. It's a vestige of the ZIRP/Grow-at-all-costs era.

When cash is easy and money is flowing, there are certain investments which help you grow faster, even though they do not help you economically. Growth isn't king, cash is. Luxuries go away in lean times, and many people consider SDRs to be luxuries.

4. They aren't staying with their employer.

The idea was hire a young sales professional. Teach them some basic sales skills. Give 'em an email account and a phone and have them ease into sales by doing one of the most basic parts of it - prospecting. Then, as you needed to hire AEs, you could promote the SDRs you'd invested in...kinda like the farm system in Major League Baseball. But, most SDRs leave before 14 months, so the talent pipeline has a major leak in it and all your effort benefits another company who hires them as an AE first.

5. Results are tanking.

Many SDR teams are doing significantly less than they used to. The math doesn't work when you aren't booking tons of meetings. It makes more sense in true enterprise (10k+ employees) when the value of a deal is huge, but in SMB and MM, the results are so low that many companies would barely notice.


These are the ideas of famous GTM people. People who spend all day thinking about this stuff and implementing it in their companies or their customers.

If SDR leaders want to change this line of thinking, y'all better start evolving and finding a way to make $1 invested in SDRs turn into $5 of ARR.

Modern sales leaders aren't afraid of how sales is evolving.
You need to align yourself with these change agents.
I'm lucky to know a few...and Clara Johnson is one of them.

Gone is the boiler room.
Welcome is breath work.

Gone is fear mongering.
Welcome is acceptance of risk.

Gone is doing it MY way.
Welcome is doing it OUR way.

Gone is "this always used to work."
Welcome is "let's find a new way."

Gone is top down.
Welcome is collaboration.

Gone is daily calls about deal updates (when nothing has happened).
Welcome is a weekly structure deal review that helps reps.

Gone is overcoming objections.
Welcome is understanding them.

Gone is chest-beating.
Welcome is balancing masculine and feminine energies.

Gone is doing it for the money.
Welcome is doing it for the growth (bc $ follows growth).

Gone are focusing solely on sales skills.
Welcome is investing in the inner-game.

Gone is using people.
Welcome is enjoying people.

Gone is all old white dude leadership teams.
Welcome is diverse teams that look like your reps and customers.

Gone is "Bob works FOR me."
Welcome is "I work WITH Bob."

Gone is managing
Welcome is coaching.

Gone is micromanagement.
Welcome is trust.


The best sales leaders are rejecting the things we know don't work anymore...no matter how much they worked for us in the past.

Sales is changing. 

If you leader isn't, it'll be hard for you to.

And if you aren't changing, you are dying...just like your deals.

There was one key ingredient to Outreach's success.
It wasn't the product, or the process, or the market (ok...maybe the market).


It was friendship.

I wouldn't say I have a ton of friends.

I invested in my family as my main relationships.

I've had a smaller circle of people who were close.

But, when Outreach was humming, I had like 500 best buds.


I'm not sure the following list is required to win big and fast, but it seemed to help:

1. Whenever I flew to Seattle before I moved there, I never stayed in a hotel → 

I stayed at the home of Andrew Kinzer (co-founder) or Manny (CEO) or Matt Millen (SVP of Revenue) or someone I wanted to get deeper with. Manny and I would cook sausage and beans together and drink good wine. Kinzer and I would watch 80s movies while we had our laptops buzzin'. Millen and I would have my OJ ready for me at 530am when I came downstairs to jump in his Porsche for a speed test drive to the office. 


2. For 2 years, I got to the office at 6am → 

Sometimes you are so locked in and so excited, you can't sleep. I'd show up at 6 and 3 people would be there. Millen, Jordan Greene, and Steve Ross. By the time I moved back to PA, we had 25 people in the office with us at 6am. We'd whiteboard, laugh, throw crap at each other, I'd stand on a surfboard while blasting Post Malone or Bassnectar. From 6-7am we won deals with meetings later that day bc we'd have 5 friends sharing their best ideas.


3. I hosted Thanksgiving dinner for wayward new Seattleites like my family → 

We had 25 people show up. Everyone brought a dish....and their little kids. I had a herd of 5 y/o's chasing my cat through the house. Manny brought his family over. I rented a ton of tables and rearranged most of my downstairs so we could all eat in the same room. The turkey was dry as the Sahara, but the mashed potatoes were on point.   


4. I hired leaders who hired their crew → 

We had a run where the frontline managers I hired almost always hired 2-3 of their best reps from their previous companies. We were stacking the deck with known quantities and relationships. Many of our top sellers were in their 2nd or 3rd gig with their manager. The amount of dirt you could get on someone to pick on them later was intensely hilarious!


5. I had Sun Chips and a Coke for lunch → 

This is Clara Johnson propaganda. Hahaha! My lunch time treats are my own vices. Despite all the rumors, 2019's incredible success was not attributed to Harvest Cheddar and caffeine mid-day. But here's what was important. I had people watching my poor eating habits and ribbing me just a bit to be better. How many people care enough to pay that close attention to something so trivial? Lots when you are tight.


6. Wanting to be #1 but celebrating whoever was → 

We had 100 AEs that could have been the best at many companies. They all wanted to be on top, but every one of them was happy for the person who was. 


Friends make great things happen. 

I was just talking to a young SDR who I set up to talk to a VP of Sales to move into an AE role. She almost didn't take the meeting. Why?

1. She'd lost her confidence.

This SDR was a top SDR. Crushed cold call role play curve balls Josh Braun threw at her on a call I set up for them to meet. She was a big part of culture at her previous company. A+ talent. Yet, she felt out of her comfort zone. 

Instead of letting that rob her confidence, I coached her to let it be a signal that she cares. It helped her redirect energy from harmful to helpful.


2. She'd forgot she knows how to sell.

I had to remind her of a coaching session we did over a year ago when I had to help her not to do AE-level discovery on a cold call bc it prevented her from setting meetings. Her average call was over 7 minutes. We almost 4x'd her connect to meeting book rate by correcting this, but she forgot her natural inclination was curiosity and discovery.

Instead of feeling further away from a key AE skill, I coached her to remember she did know how to sell. It helped her redirect energy from nervous to familiar.


3. She almost let herself think she doesn't like sales.

SDR-ing is not sales. It's SDR-ing. If you don't like SDR-ing, it doesn't mean you don't like sales. SDR-ing is prospecting. That's a part of sales, but not the whole of it. 

Instead of letting a single skill cloud her thoughts on another role, I coached her on all the fun things about sales she would experience. It helped her redirect her energy from negative to hopeful.


4. She mapped current company support to future company support.

She is at an early stage start up. They are running hard. They are behind on support roles, which is not good for young talent who needs to be developed. They have a tough time telling SDRs how to win, bc they are figuring it out still. She got rooted in thinking that the support she was getting is what all support is like.

Instead of letting false thinking rule out a future role, I coached her on typical early stage vs growth stage company support. It helped her redirect her energy from scarcity to abundance.


She went to the meeting.

It went great.

The conversation is continuing.

I'm sure she'll get the job, if she decides she wants it.

But this quick story happens often. 

Most SDRs don't have a coach or mentor who will help them through self-limiting thinking. 

If you don't have someone in your corner, get someone.

Managing energy may be one of the most important skills young sellers need to master!

It's Friday, and in my new position as CFO*, my work week begins on Saturday.
As CRO, I also worked on the weekends.
As SVP of Global Sales , I worked when my teams were working around the globe.

Here's the thing...it doesn't matter when you work or how you work.

What matters is making sure you have fun.

It never felt like I was grinding bc I was always having fun.



I still talk to reps, managers, VPs, CEOs all the time on the weekends and late at night.

I always pick up the phone (almost always).

Because helping people is fun for me.



So, if you have to work on the weekends or at night, make sure that it's work that's fun for you.

Otherwise, DO NOT WORK. Take off and recharge. Hit Monday at 110%, not 70%.

The worst thing you can do is to give you, your team, your company, and your customers 7 days at 70% when you can give them 5 days at 100%.

__________
* CFO = Chief Fun Officer of the Kosoglow Family.

As I am diversifying my experiences with new companies, I'm learning something so powerful and effective, yet so simple, I am flabbergasted how few people say their leaders do it.

It's just being nice.

Nice = warm + positive + understanding + pleasant + delightful + deferential.

Be nice when you get bad news.
Be nice when someone talks about risk.
Be nice when you ask someone to do something.
Be nice when someone asks you do to something.
Be nice when your kids your kids were up sick all night.
Be nice when someone else wins big and you didn't.
Be nice to people you meet at events.
Be nice when you are in a team meeting
Be nice in 1:1s.

C'mon, y'all. Just be nice. It's not hard.

More than likely, you are a nice person just acting in a mean way.

You are letting your emotions, stress, anxiety, hurt, etc control the energy and approach you have with people.

Don't let that negative stuff win.


And you know what?

You can be nice while having high standards.
You can be nice while holding someone accountable.
You can be nice while doing a RIF.
You can be nice while putting someone on a PIP.
You can be nice while confronting poor performance.
You can be nice while catching someone in a lie or out of process.


When you are nice, you leave conversations energized.

When you are nice, people leave conversations energized.

Why would you do anything different?

You think being a fear-mongering asshole gets SH!T done.

Nope.

Maybe in the short-term.

Being nice is the long-term play that never stops paying off.

Be like my man Ralph Barsi.

Wildly successful.
Godfather of SDRs.
Dude is such a nice guy I'd run through a wall to help him out.

Go forth today and be nice...and create wall-runner-throughers!

I'm working with a company going from $5M to $10M.
But, after COVID, they lost the Product Market Fit.
We fixed that and got them going bonkers. How?

First off, 2 female founders working in an extremely male dominated industry.

They are smart, they work hard and have a ton of courage.

After COVID, their main product was no longer necessary.

COVID had created a constraint that disappeared as the world returned to normal.

They couldn't get ahead of churn for this reason.

So, we looked through their product and found a feature that was driving immense value for their customers.

They literally bet the company on expanding that feature into a more robust product.

We, then, re-organized the team to make sure we could create recurring moments of impact post-sales that would lead to expansion revenue and retention rate increases.

Foundation set! 
Product aligned to a market need. 
Org aligned to driving customer value in that area of need!


Then, we did a work back plan to hit growth rate and ending ARR targets.

After 10 minutes, we realized they were being too aggressive.

The plan showed they'd need to 5x the number of meetings they were setting top of funnel to have a shot at their goals.

IMHO - a goal that's too large is demotivating if it's unbelievable. We agreed to lower the goal in order to get more buy-in from the team.

The new plan was still aggressive and there was a gap that their current inbound and outbound motions wasn't going to cover.

We leveraged a few events to drastically increase the number of meetings held during those conferences by having a creative plan to get people to engage with us.

Meanwhile, product was starting to expand to more use cases in the universe of the feature we had started rallying around.


So, what happened?

1. I got a call 3 weeks into Q1 for them and they had done almost as much expansion as they had all the previous year. AMAZING!

2. Then, the universe came in to help good people doing good things the right way. A major new regulation was approved that changed how the market had been solving the problem we had built the product around. And guess what? The only solution that is viable in this new world is OURS!! 

That's completely uncontrollable but we are literally grabbing market share as fast as we can as competitors are signaling a move into our blue ocean. They've already updated the websites and messaging to align to the regulations, but they won't be able to catch up on product for a quarter or two. 


It's an amazing story of:

1. Courage - they went all-in on changes. Fast. Hard. Committed.

2. Humility - they sought help, listened, and acted. No ego. Just winning.

3. Move fast - we did all this in less than 6 months. Action over anxiety.

4. Look for what works - if you look, you can find gold. Dig deep.

5. Documentation - these 2 founders think and write. All. The. Time. Clarity.


So proud of these 2 amazing humans and the company they founded that's about to EXPLODE!

Outbound has completely changed since I started at Outreach, 10 years ago. The entire email infrastructure is designed to PREVENT your email from getting to the person you are targeting. 

If you don't understand this, you will never get outbound production.

If you don't accept this, you will never get outbound production.

If you don't have a strategy to get in the inbox, you will never get outbound production.

If you keep loading up your sales engagement platform with 1000s of emails, you will never get outbound production.

If you rely solely on email, you will never get outbound production.

If you don't truly understand how to generate demand on social channels, you will never get outbound production.

If you hire an army of SDRs and don't train them, you will never get outbound production.

If you use ChatGPT to fix your messaging, you will never get outbound production.

If you don't make it absurdly easy to book a meeting, you will never get outbound production.

If you keep using data from the traditional data vendors, you will never get outbound production.

If you don't have extreme CRM hygiene, you will never get outbound production.

If you aren't sure how to write a short punchy email, you will never get outbound production.

If you spend time obsessing over subject lines instead of deliverability, you will never get outbound production.

If you keep dumping money on demand gen, you will never get outbound production.

If RevOps doesn't own account and contact data and creation, you will never get outbound production.

If you don't have a way to create relevant messaging at scale, you will never get outbound production.

If you don't understand what Relative Reply Rate is, you will never get outbound production.


Outbound is NOT an activity game any more. It was, but not now.

Outbound is about understanding the maze of email infrastructure so that the mouse (your email) can find the cheese (your prospect).

It used to be about getting the prospect's attention, but you don't even get a CHANCE to do that if your email gets lost in the labyrinth of roadblocks that your email needs to navigate after you hit SEND.

I'm in the middle of what I consider to be the most powerful example of customer-centric product development I've seen.

About 6 months ago, a stranger named Mohamed Chahin reached out to me about his startup Twain.

He was building an AI email product to assist reps in writing better performing emails. 

UGHHHHHH....🤢

Honestly, I ignored the message. Does the world need another one of these? IMHO - No. Definitely not. I don't believe AI can write decent emails yet.

He followed up (respect!).

His message felt different than others* I get, so I responded.

I ended up meeting an intelligent, humble, and eager-to-learn human...just like me...only Mo is handsomer (hahaha - that's me laughing about the complements I just gave myself, not about Mo's looks, which are inarguably dapper).

He convinced me to give AI-written emails a shot.

Then, he did something others are never willing to do at this stage.

He paid me. 

The amount wasn't crazy, but the seriousness was. 

He also told me if I didn't hold up my end of the bargain I would be removed from the program.

Uh....OK....now, I'm intrigued. Very intrigued. In fact, I'm all-in.

That took guts to do, and I'm attracted to courage.



I get a weekly form to fill out around a specific slice of the product. 

I am req'd to video myself as I use and fill out the form while talking through what I'm doing, feeling, thinking, etc.

It takes me about an hour or so per week, but holy cow! Mo is getting GOLD from me...an AI email doubter. 

I'm happy to give it bc it's not a freebie.

And after about 3 weeks, I started seeing....hmmmmm...this email is pretty good.

Then, they fixed 2 or 3 things that bothered me.

Then, I noticed the pace at which they were building.

Then, I started thinking "wonder what Twain would do to this email."

Then, I started using it more and more.

Then, it was an extension I could use almost anywhere on the web...super easy.



Did what I think happened just happen?

Do I use AI to help write emails now?

I do. 

I was proved wrong, and I think a lot of other doubters will be too once the experience Twain.



All this to say, your customers have the answers you need about your product.

Will you listen?

Will you compensate them for telling you (especially early stage)?

There maybe nothing more worth investing in than getting the voice of your customer!


Bonus → Mo was doing this with a group of people I finally got to meet face-to-face. Some were very familiar (👩🏻‍🏫 Krysten Conner), some were LI friends (Mor Assouline), some were people I admire (Daniel Disney), and some were new friends I can't wait to hang out with again.

*I found out later that Mo had used Twain to write the email DMs he'd sent me, so I guess the proof is in the pudding!

There's something I look for when I'm hiring, being hired, or partnering with someone. It helps me know if I'll enjoy the experience or not...and pretty much tells me if I'll fail or not.


There are people who have to *be* right.
Then, there are people who want to *do* right.


I never work with or for people who have to *be* right.
I always want to be near someone who loves to *do* right.


The need to *be* right is cancerous. 
The need to *do* right in infectious.


To *be* right TAKES a ton of effort and energy.
To *do* right GIVES energy and inspires effort.


To *be* right means others are wrong.
To *do* right means everyone is right.


To *be* right means YOU win. 
To *do* right means WE win.


To *be* right you have to talk at people.
To *do* right you get to talk with people.


To *be* right you take on sole responsibility if something goes wrong.
To *do* right you share responsibility if things go off course.


To *be* right means your path will probably be set in stone.
To *do* right innately means you can be more flexible.


To *be* right is about ego.
To *do* right is about being selfless.


To *be* right is fast and aggressive.
To *do* right is measured and thoughtful.


To *be* right is to make data say what you want.
To *do* right is to figure out what data says.


To *be* right is exclusive.
To *do* right is inclusive. 


To *be* right is fun for one person.
To *do* right is fun for everyone.


To *be* right is management.
To *do* right is leadership.


To *be* right is disempowering.
To *do* right is empowering.


To *be* right you kill creativity.
To *do* right you inspire creativity.


The economic downturn led to a lot of "war time" leadership advice.

War time usually means command and control.

Command and control usually means someone has to *be* right.

It's time to pull the roots of that weed out before they are too deep.

*Be* a person who always wants to *do* right!

You are missing a HUGE problem bc of your obsession with email copy and subject lines. To know why, it's important to understand the last 10 years or so of using email to outbound (I know a thing or two here)...

1990s - The Stone Age

Email becomes mainstream in business. Outlook dominates. Anyone remember having to choose between IMAP and POP3?

2000s - Bronze Age

In-person and phone still dominate most interactions. Email is a distant 3rd but starting to gain momentum. Towards the tail end, mail merge became a thing for the smart people prospecting through email.

2010s - Industrial Age

Outreach kicks off in 2014 and invents sequences. All of a sudden, the "mail merge" concept is taken to the masses, and sending emails becomes so easy, we see email volume increase from 269B to 306B, +10%. 

Email A/B testing becomes accessible, and the obsession over subject lines and email copy really begins. The companies that mastered this had an unfair advantage. And, this led to the rush to send more emails to get more data.

2020 (early that this but it ruins my timeline. ha!) - Information Age

Email recipients start to fight back and SPAM traps become better and more sophisticated. The pure volume of emails sent to multiple variations of a person's email address just get to the buyer start to signal to the "email cops" that more restrictions are needed.



All that leads to this (pun totally intended #dadjoke).

You can test your way to the perfect email subject line and copy.

But I'm starting to believe that less than 50% of emails make it to the inbox.

Because of that, it doesn't matter if you obsess over those things.

What you need to start obsessing over is your data and your deliverability. 

This is the modern challenge for people who want to use email as an outbound channel.



Stop having meetings to adjust your subject lines bc your open rates stink.

Start having meetings to figure out how to get in inboxes.

Solve that, and you win.

Everyone thinks sales teams die by 1000 cuts. False.
There's always something big and obvious killing performance.
How do you stop missing it?

1. Admit that you can't read the label from inside the jar. 

You're buried 20 dashboards deep. The answer was on the first one. We get used to what we see a lot. 

I had a spot in my yard where the neighbor's dog peed. Rest of my lawn...beautiful, but over time, I normalized the big yellow spot. Bc I didn't know how to fix it, I put it off until I didn't really notice it. Took my TruGreen rep 3 seconds to show me a fix, and 4 weeks later...no yellow spot with zero effort from me.

Example → you enter every quarter with 3X coverage but miss your number bc you have a 25% win rate. 25% means you need 4X coverage but you are just missing it bc you heard 3X is enough.


2. Stop confusing concepts.

We often conflate information and thoughts into something that's not true causing us to miss the obvious. 

I had a hose spigot that wasn't working. I turned off the water main off and back on. Nothing (dumb). I tried to turn the handle harder (dumber). I found the feed line, tore up some wall and ceiling to look for I don't know what. Still didn't work (dumbest). I combined the fact the spigot didn't work with knowing a little about plumbing to ruin my basement. In the end, a plumber told me my frost-proof spigot tripped and it was a $150 fix (repairing all the drywall I tore up was $1000). 

Example → you combine forecast-ability and deal maturity, so you wonder why so much late stage pipeline isn't in your forecast which causes you to convince yourself this quarter will end up OK when it's not.


3. Funnel measurement misses key steps.

Many sales leaders haven't looked at key parts of their process bc they aren't in a dashboard.

First time I put together an IKEA chest of drawers, it looked so simple...just holes and pegs. I'm a handy guy (home improvement has somehow become a theme of this post) and just started whipping it together. Uh oh. Had to pull out all the pegs from all the holes they were't supposed to be in. More Uh oh...I messed up the particle board ripping stuff out and had to go back to IKEA to get another Thuma.

Example → you measure MQL to qualified pipeline but forget to measure booked meetings and held meetings. Missing 2 important key metrics causes mis-diagnosis.


4. Don't be distracted by execs.

Most execs don't know sales.

When I coached my kids' bball teams, I had a parent who was an awesome AAU coach...knew more about bball than me. He would say stuff to me during games bc he'd sit right behind the bench. I listened bc the dude was smart, but guess what? My kids weren't ready for his coaching and needed encouragement not technique.

Example → your CEO is a product guy, yet he's decided your discovery stinks bc he watched a PClub.io course on it last weekend. You know you should be working on your team's demoing, but now you're not.


Look for BIG, OBVIOUS. 

I was starting to lose faith in outbound prospecting, but
I started meeting with the most forward-thinking GTM minds, and
if you knew what they knew, your outbound would be working.
They asked me not to share all their secrets, but here are 2 I can...

First off..

These are people you might have heard of but aren't household names.

Maybe you saw a post of theirs.

Maybe you're lucky and are in one of their private communities.

Maybe you nerd out like me and watch their videos with your cereal on Saturday mornings (it's the sales nerd version of Saturday morning cartoons).

These people are going deep. 

They spend tons of time understanding what's happening to their outbound efforts.

They are doing work you won't do (bc you don't know how).


Why are they winning more than everyone else?

They've realized outbound has changed.

They've accept "more dials" and "more emails" isn't enough.

They've leaned into the fact the market is noisier than ever.

And, they've committed to being the signal in the noise.

It can be done. I've seen how they do it. 

They are getting the data you want.

They are smashing outbound results.

They are getting 80% open rates.

They are getting 40% reply rates.

Their reps are setting 20 meetings per week.


Here are a couple things I can share:

1. Data, data, data (and for good measure...one more), data → 

Every.single.person. I talked to starts the convo with an advanced data strategy.

Custom tooling.
API usage that's insane.
Purpose-built scrappers.
Full-time employee growth hackers.
A community of people working to figure out challenges.
A dark underground of ethical data providers you'll never hear about.

They are maniacal about data. 

They realize that perfect subject lines, email content, and cold call techniques are WORTHLESS without good data. 

To a person, they've told me the ABSOLUTE BIGGEST LIMITER of most outbound strategies is data bought from big data vendors that's just not good enough anymore.


2. Protection → 

The current outbound environment is meant to aggressively shut down spammers.

I'm not just talking about Ethiopian prince or spearfisher spam.

I'm talking about SDRs sending 100s of emails per day spam.

Spam that no SDR would call spam bc "they aren't a spammer."

Most of the people getting results protect themselves.

That lands them in the inbox WAY more than you.

The reason you have 22% open rates isn't bc you have bad subject lines.

It's bc you are not getting to the inbox.

More than likely, because email servers, InfoSec traps, and "the email police" have found you guilty of being an emailer they deem a spammer.

You must protect your ability to land in inboxes.

Besides having great data, this is the biggest hinderance to outbound results.


So, stop obsessing over subject lines and email copy.

Yours is probably pretty good.

Another A/B test isn't going to help.

Switch tracks.

Go where the people getting results are going.

Not sure how this happened, but thanks!
I'm still always surprised to hear strangers read my stuff.
I'm just doin' my thang...and here's what that looks like:

1. Post idea folder in Notion

I get little ideas for posts multiple times per day...from conversations, emails, reading stuff, etc. I capture those ideas in a little tickler file that I go to in the morning to figure out what I want to post about.


2. Limit writing time

I give myself 20 mins (30 max) to get a post out and done. Anything more than that and I feel like I'm thinking about it too much. I'm not a talking head. I'm an operator who happens to post. 


3. Talk from experience, not theory

I only post stuff I've done, tried, failed at, succeeded with, etc. I'm not out here trying to get people to try stuff I haven't. I take what I learn and marry it with that tickler file to always have inspiration.


4. Be me

If you meet me, you'll see these posts sound like me. I just try to make sure they have my voice, my tone, my personality, my sense of humor (🤞🏻). I can't be someone else on LI than I am in the real world...I don't have the mental fortitude for that.


5. Consistency

I replaced journaling with posting. I sit down and do it every day bc it's an awesome way to start my day, organize my thoughts, and capture learnings.


6. Long form

I know lots of people hate it, but I'm a long form guy. I can't do 4 lines or 2 paragraphs. I start with an idea and just bang it out. If it takes all the characters I have, so be it. I probably wouldn't read my own long posts. haha.


7.  Personal and professional

I'm not scared to post about personal stuff on LI. I try to link it back to a business lesson or concept, but to me, I'm proud of and happy with my life. I like to share it with others so they'll share theirs with me.


8. Respond to comments

For a few hours, I'll try to respond to every comment. It leads to deeper connection and I usually get another post idea or two from people. 


9. Restraint

I do not check LI constantly throughout the day. I'll do it a few times for a few minutes to get done what I need to do.


10. Keep up

Y'all see how many former Outreach sellers are prominent on LI. I'm trying to keep up. hahaha

As an AE, what kills your pipeline coverage more than anything? No...the answer is not discovery.*  So, guess again (and it ain't your fault...well mostly not your fault).

The answer is your company's ability to convert demand into pipeline.

There's a hole almost every company has. Let's map it out, so you can see yours.

1. Demand gen (marketing) spends loads of cash creating content, buying ads, getting clicks, getting form fills, driving demo requests, hosting events, getting chat sessions, etc. In many companies, besides the cost of people, demand gen is the biggest budgetary line item.

2. Whatever channel or path gets taken, a "lead" (MCL, MQL, MQA, etc) is dropped into a process to either book, host a meeting, or nurture to create pipeline.

3. The meeting is held, and we see if we have qualified pipeline or not.

NOTE: Qualified pipeline coverage is the single most important metric in generating revenue. You can almost never spend enough effort, time, thought, or money on increasing the amount of qualified pipeline reps have.



So where does your company more than likely suck in a tiny 3 step process?

Step 2 is where marketing dollars and pipeline (and revenue) go to die.

The handoff of marketing delivering a "lead" to SDRs/AEs convert into pipeline is "demand conversion."

Very few companies focus on this point.

Why? Because sales and marketing have this really weird relationship.

They love the blame game.

It's been happening for years.

Know why it's still going on? 

Because there's really nobody to blame bc nobody owns this handoff.

It's just assumed marketing will get sales "on it."

Or sales will work with marketing to get leads routed right.

Sure. That stuff happens, but obviously, not as well as it needs to.

Maybe people are scared to own this.

They shouldn't be. It's a chance to make your career by getting it right.



Generally speaking, about 1.2% of demand generated (website visits, etc) turns into qualified pipeline. 

Tack on a 25% win rate and 0.3% of leads turn into revenue.

Hmmmmmmm....that means you are only 4500 times more likely to turn a lead into revenue than to get hit by lightening (when I looked that stat up I was hoping it'd be lower but I did too much research and math to not include it now - ha!).



Getting over the hump of increasing the conversion of leads into qualified pipeline is one of the biggest things any company can do to increase pipeline coverage. (I know you were wondering how I'd bring that camel pic into this.)

And, if you think AEs/SDRs need to follow up with leads better, you are walking down the wrong path.

____________
*Listen. Lots of reps suck at discovery, and I'm sure I'll do another 100 posts on it in the next year or two. It's critical, but I had to pick something else bc I read a dozen posts per day on discovery. If you don't get it yet, you probably aren't going to.

For the C-suite, learning to delegate is key. 
I’m mastering this in my new CFO role.
Birthday trip - delegated to the gf and kids. 
But, some things you can never delegate. 
The grill - you’ll need to rip the grill tongs from my cold, dead hands (and good news for the tong-takers…it’s freezing in PA today so my hands are cold for sure).

Top sellers are taking a step forward. Sales skills are important, but the best are adding "other stuff" to really win big. Here are some examples:


1. Inner game → 
What's your mindset like?
Your energy?
Your confidence? 
Your focus?
Your work/life harmony? 

If you think you can be:
-arguing with your partner
-stressed about your kids, 
-crushed by the thought of quota
-drinking every night

and you are gonna win at sales right now. 
You are wrong.

The best are joining communities of like-minded people.

They are investing in improving their inner game.


2. Data skills → 
Can you you pull accounts you need?
Are you doing manual research?
How much do you use ChatGPT?
Do you pay for ChatGPT?
Can you run pivot tables?

If you think you can:
-live off SFDC reports
-read a bunch of 10Ks
-spend 45 mins writing an email
-run LI Sales Nav lists
-rely on ZoomInfo data 

and you are gonna win at sales right now. 
You are wrong.

The best are using advanced data tools to unlock wins.

They are investing in improving their data skills.


3. Social game → 
Do you post regularly?
Are you doing podcasts?
Can you use LI to get to people?
Do you do videos?
Are your selfies as good as mine (HA!)?

If you think you can:
-just stalk people on LI
-just like people's posts
-send out rando connection requests
-post once and get reach
-scroll through LI

and you are gonna win at sales right now.
You are wrong.

The best are building brands on LinkedIn.

They are investing in improving their social game.


4. Side hustle → 
This one is a bit different.
They take your mind off your grind.
That refreshes your thinking.
Also, if you really know your stuff,
You can create courses/coaching.

It's not about the money.
(Maybe a little.)
It's about learnings and pace.
You have to speed up to win.
And, action creates more action.
Wins create more wins.

The best have places to get action and wins.

They are investing in a side hustle.


We are at a precipice in sales. 
You can jump forward.
Or, you can walk backward.

Jump.


Chances I win this. ZERO. 
Unless....

...y'all help a brutha out and vote for me 👇
https://lnkd.in/eZKy_6tp

As you consider taking action, think about this:

1. 📈 Jeremey Donovan is smarter than me so let him have that and I'll take this.

2. Kyle Coleman has a new baby. He doesn't have time for awards.

3. Kyle Lacy launched a fashion line and I wear his gear. Already winning.

4. Latané Conant (she/her) has won too many awards. She told me her trophy cabinet is totally full. Basically, she's not accepting anymore.

5. Hilary Headlee can't be the best RevOps person I've met and also good at Demand Gen bc it makes me too jealous.

6. Gabe Larsen...ok...you can vote for Gabe. He told me he needed a hug a couple weeks ago and I couldn't give it to him. I think "runner up" is equal to a hug, right?


__________
P.S. How awesome is it they took my CFO title?!! Bet there are no CFOs good at DG, too.

P.P.S. Harmony Hickman Anderson and Kelly Mitchell should win this hands down but they aren't on the ballot. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Giving your reps the answers is the WORST thing you can do.
Why?

1. Reps have the answers already

Most reps know the answers. They just don't want to dig to find them. Sure, there are times when reps need an answer right now, but typically, when you have them access the answers they already know, your reps will retain that information 10x more.

2. You create a culture of laziness

It's so easy for my kids to ask me an answer to a homework problem. It's easy for me to just give them the answer. What's hard is to have them work through the problem, find out mistakes, help them understand mistakes, then show them how to avoid mistakes. It takes a 20 second answer to a 20 minute tutoring session. Most people will do the lazy 20 second solution and give an answer, and your kid (rep) learns nothing. It's lazy. Learned > Lazy

3. You become a choke point

When you have all the answer, everyone comes to your for them. Then, everything slows down bc of your flooded calendar, inbox, Slack, etc. When you are holding up areas of the org and people have to wait on you to move, you end up hurting the business even though you may be helping the people.

4. You kill enablement before it happens

You know the easiest training there is? Training someone to be able to ignore enablement bc you'll just give them answers later. If you're gonna do that, just cancel enablement bc nobody is paying attention.


The biggest gift you can give a rep is self-reliance. That doesn't mean you sell alone (bc there are something only a leader can do), but it does mean reps need to own their areas of responsibility and control.

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